Comments on: Opera Are Behind The Times http://www.fogofeternity.com/2007/12/opera-are-behind-the-times/ we make great websites Sun, 05 Feb 2012 02:59:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Robin Cannon http://www.fogofeternity.com/2007/12/opera-are-behind-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-5 Robin Cannon Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:44:00 +0000 http://foeimport.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/opera-are-behind-the-times/#comment-5 The standards based argument is something of a fallacious one though, because while W3C guidelines are widely enough accepted they remain nothing more than that - guidelines. They aren't legally binding in any way, and so I don't see how Opera can legitimately argue that MS are in some way acting unfairly in failing to support them. Some disability/accessibility legislation references guidlines from W3C standards but I'm not aware of any that actually use them word for word, and legislation such as the UK Disability Discrimination Act merely states that "best efforts" need to be made to ensure accessibility, which can arguably be justified just by providing a text only version of a website.<br /><br />I also don't think that there's such a huge issue in terms of IE7's accessibility support as is claimed. Certainly I don't consider it to be materially worse than other available browsers, whereas that would have been a far more powerful argument when Windows was still being bundled with IE6 and Microsoft had failed to support any development for several years. That isn't the case now, so even if the case can only be launched now due to various legal reasons, it remains outdated.<br /><br />Reasonable point on the W3Schools stats being skewed in favour of Firefox. Though I'd argue that people aren't "stuck" using a platform that developers wouldn't recommend, given the free availability of browsers from Firefox to Konqueror, all under a Windows platform.<br /><br />I'm sure Opera are doing fine in a business sense, but then I also imagine that their business model at this stage is built to take into account their minimal share in the overall browser market. In terms of market penetration for their browser though, they've demonstrated no significant change in take up either by developers (based on W3Schools stats) or wider public usage. The standards based argument is something of a fallacious one though, because while W3C guidelines are widely enough accepted they remain nothing more than that – guidelines. They aren’t legally binding in any way, and so I don’t see how Opera can legitimately argue that MS are in some way acting unfairly in failing to support them. Some disability/accessibility legislation references guidlines from W3C standards but I’m not aware of any that actually use them word for word, and legislation such as the UK Disability Discrimination Act merely states that “best efforts” need to be made to ensure accessibility, which can arguably be justified just by providing a text only version of a website.

I also don’t think that there’s such a huge issue in terms of IE7’s accessibility support as is claimed. Certainly I don’t consider it to be materially worse than other available browsers, whereas that would have been a far more powerful argument when Windows was still being bundled with IE6 and Microsoft had failed to support any development for several years. That isn’t the case now, so even if the case can only be launched now due to various legal reasons, it remains outdated.

Reasonable point on the W3Schools stats being skewed in favour of Firefox. Though I’d argue that people aren’t “stuck” using a platform that developers wouldn’t recommend, given the free availability of browsers from Firefox to Konqueror, all under a Windows platform.

I’m sure Opera are doing fine in a business sense, but then I also imagine that their business model at this stage is built to take into account their minimal share in the overall browser market. In terms of market penetration for their browser though, they’ve demonstrated no significant change in take up either by developers (based on W3Schools stats) or wider public usage.

]]> By: deuseggs http://www.fogofeternity.com/2007/12/opera-are-behind-the-times/comment-page-1/#comment-4 deuseggs Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:51:00 +0000 http://foeimport.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/opera-are-behind-the-times/#comment-4 I'm afraid you're missing the point of the complaint.<br/><br/>1) It could only be launched now, due to MS losing their appeal against the EC case. Now that that issue is resolved, Opera has some leverage to make a difference. They have been arguing this point for many years, as have supporters of other browsers.<br/><br/>2) Yes, the standards are 8 years old. And MS still have failed to support them, despite being involved in their development. <br/><br/>3) No-one is saying that MS can't bundle a browser - but that if they are bundling a browser, they shouldn't be doing it in a way that breaks the web and locks websites into only supporting their browser. <br/><br/>4) The W3Schools stats are for that site only, they are heavily web-developer-oriented. That in itself should prove Opera's point - if 50% of web developers are actively using standards-based technology but only 20% of end-users are, then a lot of people are stuck using a platform that web developers wouldn't recommend.<br/><br/>5) Finally, Opera is doing just fine, always has. They are still expanding, have cash in the bank, and are building up even more high-profile clients. I’m afraid you’re missing the point of the complaint.

1) It could only be launched now, due to MS losing their appeal against the EC case. Now that that issue is resolved, Opera has some leverage to make a difference. They have been arguing this point for many years, as have supporters of other browsers.

2) Yes, the standards are 8 years old. And MS still have failed to support them, despite being involved in their development.

3) No-one is saying that MS can’t bundle a browser – but that if they are bundling a browser, they shouldn’t be doing it in a way that breaks the web and locks websites into only supporting their browser.

4) The W3Schools stats are for that site only, they are heavily web-developer-oriented. That in itself should prove Opera’s point – if 50% of web developers are actively using standards-based technology but only 20% of end-users are, then a lot of people are stuck using a platform that web developers wouldn’t recommend.

5) Finally, Opera is doing just fine, always has. They are still expanding, have cash in the bank, and are building up even more high-profile clients.

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